Discworld Timeline inconsistency

[esmi]

A visitor to the Discworld Timeline at:

<http://www.lspace.org/books/timeline/dw-timeline.html>

has spotted a problem - namely:

<quote>
1938 Granny meets Mustrum Ridcully. (50 Years before Lords &
Ladies). Ridcully is 24 Yrs Old.
</quote>

and

<quote>
1946 Ridcully leaves Unseen University at age 27 for a rural
life. He is a Level 7 Mage.
</quote>

Now it doesn't take more than a rough grasp of mathematics to
figure out that there's something wrong here.

I'm assuming that the 1946 info is correct. I dimly recall that
Ridcully's age when he left UU at 27 was a direct book quote
(can't remember which book, though). If that is the case, then it
is the earlier date/age that is questionable.

Suggestions:
- Ridcully was only 19 when he met Granny in 1938.
- Ridcully actually met Granny in 1943 when he was 23.
- the '50 years before Lord & Ladies' was only meant as a rough
figure along the lines of people saying "I met him about 20 years
ago" when it was actually 25 years ago.

So - what do we need?

1. The direct quote (with book title and page number if possible:
p/b or h/b) in which Ridcully's age when he originally left the UU
was mentioned.

2. The direct quote(s) (again with page numbers) in which
Ridcully's and Granny's earlier meeting is mentioned.

3. Any direct reference to Ridcully's age when he first met
Granny.

On your marks..get set...go!

esmi

[Kurt Stege]

Post by esmi
Now it doesn't take more than a rough grasp of mathematics to
figure out that there's something wrong here.

I see it the other way round: You need something more than
a grasp of mathematics to figure out, what's really out there.

Regards,
Kurt.

[Daibhid Ceannaideach]

From: ***@lspace.org (esmi)
Date: 26/08/04 10:06 GMT Daylight Time

Post by esmi
<http://www.lspace.org/books/timeline/dw-timeline.html>
<quote>
1938 Granny meets Mustrum Ridcully. (50 Years before Lords &
Ladies). Ridcully is 24 Yrs Old.
</quote>
and
<quote>
1946 Ridcully leaves Unseen University at age 27 for a rural
life. He is a Level 7 Mage.
</quote>
Now it doesn't take more than a rough grasp of mathematics to
figure out that there's something wrong here.
I'm assuming that the 1946 info is correct. I dimly recall that
Ridcully's age when he left UU at 27 was a direct book quote
(can't remember which book, though). If that is the case, then it
is the earlier date/age that is questionable.
- Ridcully was only 19 when he met Granny in 1938.
- Ridcully actually met Granny in 1943 when he was 23.
- the '50 years before Lord & Ladies' was only meant as a rough
figure along the lines of people saying "I met him about 20 years
ago" when it was actually 25 years ago.
So - what do we need?
p/b or h/b) in which Ridcully's age when he originally left the UU
was mentioned.
2. The direct quote(s) (again with page numbers) in which
Ridcully's and Granny's earlier meeting is mentioned.
3. Any direct reference to Ridcully's age when he first met
Granny.
On your marks..get set...go!

To paraphrase Lucy Lawless in the Simpsons "Every time you notice something
like that, a History Monk did it." 8-).

Anyway:

1. Moving Pictures, introducing Ridcully, says he "hadn't set foot in the
University for forty years" and that "after becoming a Seventh Level Mage at
the incredibly young age of twenty-seven had quit the University in order to
look after his family's estates". (both quotes p19 of the Corgi pb).

2. L&L opens with young Esme meeting the Elf Queen while running from a young
man (who may or may not be Mustrum, but is certainly around the same period of
her life) "fifty years or more before the ever-moving *now*" (p8). Granny calls
it "fifty or sixty years ago" on p223.

3. I can't find any actual reference to Ridcully's actual age at the time of
the meeting. There's a suggestion on p109 that Ponder believes he's currently
about seventy, but then Ponder probably thinks of everyone over fifty as "about
seventy". So the most likely explanation is that Ridcully was indeed 17 or so
when he met Esme for the first time, about fifty years before his intro in the
books, and ten years after that he left the UU aged 27.

HTH. HAD.

[esmi]

Post by Daibhid Ceannaideach
To paraphrase Lucy Lawless in the Simpsons "Every time you
notice something like that, a History Monk did it." 8-).

The Timeline is already getting enough stick for the Lancre
Timeslip. I daren't start blaming History Monks yet. I'm leaving
that for a last resort. :-)

Post by Daibhid Ceannaideach
1. Moving Pictures, introducing Ridcully, says he "hadn't set
foot in the University for forty years" and that "after
becoming a Seventh Level Mage at the incredibly young age of
twenty-seven had quit the University in order to look after
his family's estates". (both quotes p19 of the Corgi pb).

So Ridcully has to be at least 67 in Moving Pictures (1985
according to the Timeline).

Post by Daibhid Ceannaideach
2. L&L opens with young Esme meeting the Elf Queen while
running from a young man (who may or may not be Mustrum, but
is certainly around the same period of her life) "fifty years
or more before the ever-moving *now*" (p8). Granny calls it
"fifty or sixty years ago" on p223.

So we've now pinned down that '50 years' isn't an exact figure.
That gives us a few years leeway (ie 51 - 54 years) as, IME,
people are more likely to round such figures *down* rather than
*up* - especially when dealing with numbers less than 5s. I also
think Granny would hardly call 45+ years "fifty or sixty years
ago". I doubt she'd be that inaccurate - especially as the upper
limit makes her look older - something she's not too keen on
generally.

Post by Daibhid Ceannaideach
3. I can't find any actual reference to Ridcully's actual age
at the time of the meeting. There's a suggestion on p109 that
Ponder believes he's currently about seventy, but then Ponder
probably thinks of everyone over fifty as "about seventy". So
the most likely explanation is that Ridcully was indeed 17 or
so when he met Esme for the first time, about fifty years
before his intro in the books, and ten years after that he
left the UU aged 27.

Given that L&L is currently listed as occurring in 1986 in the
Timeline, that makes Ridcully at least 68 during L&L.

For the original meeting to have happened 50 years ago (estimated
minimum time), it must have occurred in 1936 (rather than 1938, as
currently cited) when Ridcully was 18. That would also make Granny
70+ (we know she is a little older than Ridcully when they first
meet - 21 sounds reasonable) which ties in nicely with her being
around 70 at the time of WA (1985).

Unless anyone comes up with another theory, I suggest amending the
Timeline citing your references in the Timeline Thoughts.

esmi
--

[Jon]

þus cwæð esmi;

Post by esmi

Post by Daibhid Ceannaideach
To paraphrase Lucy Lawless in the Simpsons "Every time you
notice something like that, a History Monk did it." 8-).

The Timeline is already getting enough stick for the Lancre
Timeslip. I daren't start blaming History Monks yet. I'm leaving
that for a last resort. :-)

<big snip>

The thought does occur that trying to create a coherent DW Timeline is not
unlike trying to nail jelly to the ceiling.

(I'm not saying you shouldn't try, mind).

[Ben]

Post by Jon
The thought does occur that trying to create a coherent DW Timeline is not
unlike trying to nail jelly to the ceiling.
(I'm not saying you shouldn't try, mind).

Believe me, I have been trying to nail this exact flavour of jelly to
the ceiling for quite some time now.
I still believe it's possible, one day it will work. The Lancre Time
Slip solves a lot but also gets in the way at times.
Unfortunately I don't own Lords and Ladies. I would love to know the
exact quote about when Granny and Ridcully knew eachother... *whose*
50 years ago was it?
On the other hand, it may be possible that Ridcully was in Lancre too
in the time of Wyrd Sisters, it only says he came from the country, I
don't remember anything about where exactly...

~Ben
---
the Australian Discworld Convention
www.ausdwcon.org

[Jim McCormick]

Post by Ben

Post by Jon
The thought does occur that trying to create a coherent DW Timeline is not
unlike trying to nail jelly to the ceiling.
(I'm not saying you shouldn't try, mind).

Believe me, I have been trying to nail this exact flavour of jelly to
the ceiling for quite some time now.
I still believe it's possible, one day it will work. The Lancre Time
Slip solves a lot but also gets in the way at times.
Unfortunately I don't own Lords and Ladies. I would love to know the
exact quote about when Granny and Ridcully knew eachother... *whose*
50 years ago was it?
On the other hand, it may be possible that Ridcully was in Lancre too
in the time of Wyrd Sisters, it only says he came from the country, I
don't remember anything about where exactly...
~Ben
---
the Australian Discworld Convention
www.ausdwcon.org

I don't know if this requires spoiler space, so, better to err on the side
of caution, I suppose.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
In the Harper Prism paperback edition of the book, on page two it says:
"And now, spool time forward for thousands of years to a point fifty years
or more before the ever-moving now, to a hillside and a young woman,
running."

So, the incident occurs fifty years before the action in Lords and Ladys;
i.e. before the wedding of King Verence and Magrat.

Also, on page 37 of the same edition, Ridcully says about Lancre: "Used to
stay with my uncle up there, in the holidays", which seems to indicate that
he wasn't from Lancre, but had relatives there.

Hope that helps.

[bewtifulfreak]

Post by Jim McCormick

Post by Ben

Post by Jon
The thought does occur that trying to create a coherent DW Timeline
is not unlike trying to nail jelly to the ceiling.
(I'm not saying you shouldn't try, mind).

Believe me, I have been trying to nail this exact flavour of jelly to
the ceiling for quite some time now.
I still believe it's possible, one day it will work. The Lancre Time
Slip solves a lot but also gets in the way at times.
Unfortunately I don't own Lords and Ladies. I would love to know the
exact quote about when Granny and Ridcully knew eachother... *whose*
50 years ago was it?
On the other hand, it may be possible that Ridcully was in Lancre too
in the time of Wyrd Sisters, it only says he came from the country, I
don't remember anything about where exactly...
~Ben
---
the Australian Discworld Convention
www.ausdwcon.org

I don't know if this requires spoiler space, so, better to err on the
side of caution, I suppose.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
In the Harper Prism paperback edition of the book, on page two it
says: "And now, spool time forward for thousands of years to a point
fifty years or more before the ever-moving now, to a hillside and a
young woman, running."
So, the incident occurs fifty years before the action in Lords and
Ladys; i.e. before the wedding of King Verence and Magrat.

And I would think the "or more" would allow for a bit of flexibility when
figuring things as well. :)

--
Ann

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/bewtifulfreak

[Jim McCormick]

Post by Jim McCormick

Post by Ben

Post by Jon
The thought does occur that trying to create a coherent DW Timeline is

not

Post by Ben

Post by Jon
unlike trying to nail jelly to the ceiling.
(I'm not saying you shouldn't try, mind).

Believe me, I have been trying to nail this exact flavour of jelly to
the ceiling for quite some time now.
I still believe it's possible, one day it will work. The Lancre Time
Slip solves a lot but also gets in the way at times.
Unfortunately I don't own Lords and Ladies. I would love to know the
exact quote about when Granny and Ridcully knew eachother... *whose*
50 years ago was it?
On the other hand, it may be possible that Ridcully was in Lancre too
in the time of Wyrd Sisters, it only says he came from the country, I
don't remember anything about where exactly...
~Ben
---
the Australian Discworld Convention
www.ausdwcon.org

I don't know if this requires spoiler space, so, better to err on the side
of caution, I suppose.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
"And now, spool time forward for thousands of years to a point fifty years
or more before the ever-moving now, to a hillside and a young woman,
running."
So, the incident occurs fifty years before the action in Lords and Ladys;
i.e. before the wedding of King Verence and Magrat.
Also, on page 37 of the same edition, Ridcully says about Lancre: "Used to
stay with my uncle up there, in the holidays", which seems to indicate that
he wasn't from Lancre, but had relatives there.
Hope that helps.

Upon further perusing of the book, in the scene of the meeting of Granny and
Ridcully on page 182 Granny says, "It was all fifty or sixty years ago!"